Hey Timberwolf, care for a little debate?

[Michigan Skip]

I saw your reply to my question and though maybe I'd play the devil's advocate for a change. You up for defending your thoughts? ( Like I really needed to ask )

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

%$#! nametag jobs.

Originally Posted by Michigan Skip

????? bear with me, I'm old. What are you talking about son?

Originally Posted by Timberwolf

Jobs with pin-on nametags that hire and fire people without actually knowing their employees. I guess too many years as an independent or working for companies that are small enough where we all not only know each other, but our families, etc., have spoiled me on going back to the large faceless corporations.
Call me cynical, but while work is work, and I will take what I can get before taking a handout, I dislike jobs where they are more interested in everyone doing a 'company cheer' at staff meetings than employee retention and loyalty.

[Timberwolf]

Sure Thought it's not really a belief system for me. It's just more of a personal preference.

[Michigan Skip]

Ah, I was just wondering how you came to the conclusion that large corporations don't have employee retention and loyalty at the top of the priority list.

[Timberwolf]

Originally Posted by Michigan Skip

Ah, I was just wondering how you came to the conclusion that large corporations don't have employee retention and loyalty at the top of the priority list.

let's take my current part time 'name tag' job as an example.

The pay is about 50% below average for retail in the area. They have hourly wage caps...regardless of how long you have been there. Those caps are also below average. 3 years of company loyalty in my position caps below the hiring wage when I was at Autozone.

There is no incentive to do a great job other than personal pride. It is a sales position that is non commissioned. That being said, there are penalties for not upselling or tacking on the add-ons that net huge profit margins. EX: no kudos for selling a $500 computer system, but you get punished if you don't sell the $250 service plan, $100 setup, $30 anti virus, $30 wireless mouse, etc. By punished, I mean that if the "ESP" (extended service plan" and attachments (all the extras) don't make at least 7% of sales by saturday night at 9pm, they schedule a MANDATORY meeting for 8am sunday morning. Yep... 11 hours notice that you have to be at work for a bitch session about why you didn't make sales goals.

For the record, I haven't missed a sales goal yet. I'm a hell of a salesman But ask me if there's any incentive beyond my pride?

I took this job knowing the wage going in. I debated long and hard about accepting a position that pays less than I have made since the late 80s. But I took it, because it's work. And they will work around my school schedule. And something is better than nothing, right?

So I'm working two jobs, one of which I really don't like, but I go in every day and do my best for the company. But I do have a limit. I draw the line at company cheers and there is still a debate going on in my mind about whether I will ever actually make it to one of their mandatory punishment meetings.

Treat your employees like they are valuable.. not like they are dangling by a thread. Don't ask them to do things that make them feel like they are in grade school. And they will do a better job for you in the end. People need to feel pride in their company, not like they are a faceless number. Don't give them a limit to their growth.

[Michigan Skip]

Ok, for a minute there I thought you had been listening to Bob Seger's "Feel Like a Number" or had just watched the PBS special "The Wal-Martization of America". I think major corporations feel that they are in the business to make money, not a happy home for some joe blow to come and have fun. Work is work, and if a guy hires in, he knows what's expected of him. If he can't make the trip, he gets reminded of why he is there. There is no guarantees anyone will treat you the way you think you should be treated. If companies gave in to every whim of every employee, can you imagine what that would cost? Besides, a little intimidation keeps the employees on their toes. give them a little slack, and they will take advantage of you.. I remember lots of posts on here by individuals telling how that a "go-getter" won't have any trouble climbing the ladder at any company.


You sound like a disgrutled union worker. Next thing you know you'll be wanting paid time off, paid holidays, more hourly pay, more benefits, and the list goes on and on.

[Timberwolf]

hahaha

I'm not talking so much about them catering tot he whim of every worker, but moreso making the place of employment somewhere the employees don't hate to go. Once workers get the feeling management and above really don't give two shits who fills the slot, then they stop caring as well.

everyone knows they have a job to do. Now more than ever work is work, and you take what you can get. But when you 'feel like a number' you won't perform your best, and the employer is not getting the work they expect.

I've been an employer myself for a lot of years. And I've always felt that the key to employee retention and loyalty is to pay them what they are worth, acknowledge exemplary service, and give them a sense that they are valuable to the company. I built many strong work forces this way. And in the end, I made more money by doing so

[YNOVATE]

I can back up Mike's statements about ESP's and "attachment sales." Target is pushing HARD on this right now. I was about to Terminate an employee for inconsistent sales and service goals for our electronics department. then an internal structure change eliminated his position anyways, so we were able to offer the employee(s) a seperation package from the company.

retail is tough. Hourly wage caps are hard to deal with. I've been capped for years, and seem to keep working my way up to higher paygrades, but everytime I promote, i'm at a "capped" level. the largest raise i've received in a non-promotional year was 70cents/hr in the last 7 years.

I'm at a point where i'm wrapping up school by May, and my superiors are pushing hard for me to promote to a salary position, which could require relocation.

Large companies are all about results, good ones do have retention plans in place...I've heard from outside sources that Target is probably the most lienient on its corrective action policies. I can speak first hand to the fact that Target takes its time before deciding to terminate. The example I gave above about an electronics employee....we worked with this person for 18 months to help him develop skills, initiative, motivation, in order to get results....it just wasn't a good fit for him

[Michigan Skip]

Mike, I've been in the workforce since 1971, and have seen all kinds of workers. I've yet to see but a very few that liked their job. I have some here that would complain if you hung them with a new rope. Most feel the company owes them. Most have attendance problems.They are paid probably more than what they are really "worth" too. Seems the longer I work, the worse the newer generation is. We are in business to make a profit for our owners, not to provide an income for some lazy clown that thinks the world revolves around them. I've found that if we treated people like you say to, that they see that as a sign of weakness, and take advantage of us. But, the climbers climb to the top, and if they don't like what they see, they move on.

Brad
If you only got 70 cents raise in 7 years, maybe you need to start asking questions. Hourly Wage caps aren't "carved in stone", as company policy can change at the drop of a hat, or under the table.(If you know what I mean) and I'd be willing to bet there are people above you that are getting raises regularly.
As far as working with someone for 18 months and then terminating someone, I'd have to ask why take that long? I'd have given him the boot after 60 days. 60 days is all it takes to find out if someone is a "fit". Sounds to me like he was afraid of over-exerting himself.

[YNOVATE]

Originally Posted by Michigan Skip

Mike, I've been in the workforce since 1971, and have seen all kinds of workers. I've yet to see but a very few that liked their job. I have some here that would complain if you hung them with a new rope. Most feel the company owes them. Most have attendance problems.They are paid probably more than what they are really "worth" too. Seems the longer I work, the worse the newer generation is. We are in business to make a profit for our owners, not to provide an income for some lazy clown that thinks the world revolves around them. I've found that if we treated people like you say to, that they see that as a sign of weakness, and take advantage of us. But, the climbers climb to the top, and if they don't like what they see, they move on.

Brad
If you only got 70 cents raise in 7 years, maybe you need to start asking questions. Hourly Wage caps aren't "carved in stone", as company policy can change at the drop of a hat, or under the table.(If you know what I mean) and I'd be willing to bet there are people above you that are getting raises regularly.
As far as working with someone for 18 months and then terminating someone, I'd have to ask why take that long? I'd have given him the boot after 60 days. 60 days is all it takes to find out if someone is a "fit". Sounds to me like he was afraid of over-exerting himself.

Not 70 cents total, and I did say in a NON-PROMOTIONAL year. I've received promotions and significant raises. But in a year that I received a review in the same position, and you make what I make an hour(because i've been with Target for 13 years) an hourly raise is capped, to the tune of about 70 cents. so this year(April to be exact) if i do not get promoted, i will only receive about a 70 cent/hr raise.

As far as the Employee I mentioned, this person was with Target for 4-5 years. He was in position when arrived to my current store. It wasn't until I got there that someone stepped up to really evaluate his worth.

[Michigan Skip]

Well, that didn't take long. Mike, for the record I agree with your thoughts that if a company treated their employees like more than just another monkey in the circus, that they'd get more productivity and loyalty. But in discussions with many business owners from the US, and a few heated debates on other forums, I have come to the conclusion that the typical blue collar worker is though of as more of a liability than an asset. A necessary "evil" if you will. I've even had business owners tell me they'd pay way less than minimum wage if they could get away with it. And they have also said they have not respect nor compassion for the people that work for them. I have to think that this must be the way most of Americans feel about this subject, based on the lack of help defending the opinion you gave on here. Heck, how much help have you gotten from others on this forum? I guess it's time for us to throw integrity and character aside, and embrace the current theory of employer/employee relationship.